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it is growing at those types of levels. can it continue to grow at that level is going to be the question. either way they are doing to continue to be the player. other companies get moved out but cisco will be a long-term player because they will be part of the next generation. nvidia is a major participate pant and they're major beneficiaries, they're doing all this buildout but then you will move more to the computing side, more to the cloud side. that is where a company like cisco will have a new life. liz: which got networking equipment, original business going strong. thank you very much, dan, good to have you. folks, new records for the s&p and the nasdaq. [closing bell rings] dow closing lower by 124 points. do not miss our coverage of the fed rate decision news conference. ♪. larry: hello, folks, welcome to "kudlow," i'm larry kudlow.

the top story today, the top story, hunter biden found guilty on all three charges in the delaware gun trial. we got andy mccarthy to review it for us. congressman byron donalds reacting in a few moments. first up our very own lydia hu standing by with all the details. what can you tell us? >> larry the president's son hundred hunt is convicted felon. the jury did in three hours. they found that hunter lied on a federal gun form when he claimed he was not a drug user. the third count was found guilty possessing a gun battling addiction. one juror spoke to fox news after the verdict said the case was hard wrenching. here is more. >> nobody is above the law, no matter who you are. so, that did not play a factor

in my decision -- it was not politically motivated. >> reporter: now hunter's family attended trial with him, including first lady jill biden. hunter had this to say in a statement after the verdict. i'm more grateful for the love and support i experienced this week pro melissa, that is his wife, my family, my friends, my community, than i am disappointed by the outcome. hunter's lawyer, abby lowell promised to pursue vigorously all the legal challenges available. president biden spoke before a gun control advocacy group this afternoon in a pre-scheduled event. president biden did not mention today's conviction of his son on federal gun charges. instead he issued a state earlier in the day read this, quote, as i also said last week i will accept the outcome of this case and will continue to respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. this adds to the president's

previous commitment to not pardon his son. now remains to be seen whether biden keeps that promise as hunter faces the possibility of prison time. larry, the maximum sentence here is 25 years plus fines but as a first-time offender, federal sentencing guidelines suggest somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 to 21 months. that sentencing date yet to be scheduled. it is expected in 120 days, around the same time that hunter biden's federal tax case is expected to start in california which some say is much more problematic for hunter biden and the biden family. spokesperson for the trump campaign had this to say. quote, this trial has been nothing more than a distraction of the real crimes of the biden crime family which has raked in tens of millions of dollars from china, russia and ukraine. criminal joe biden empire is combing to an end on november 5th.

larry, president biden is heading back to wilmington, delaware this afternoon to be at the family compound to presume see hunt hunt hunter biden. larry: we have andy mccarthy. you, jonathan turley, trey gowdy and others have been parsing this through, but occurs to me as a rank amateur here, one difference between alvin bragg's trial in new york, and this trial in delaware was the judge, all right? i think that marchon, whatever his name is was a rogue judge. noreika a trump appoint tee, played it straight down the middle, offered correct instructions to the jury. i don't think the jury was to blame in new york. i think judges matter, andy

mccarthy, from this amateur's point of view? >> that is per speck description, amateur or otherwise. when you get a good judge, who treats it, not putting the thumb on the scale for the government but heats it like a serious business, that is always good for the prosecution, it is good for the rule of law. besides the judge, larry this is good common sense, not any obtuse legal principle, if you ask 20 people on the street what hunter was convicted of, they could probably tell you very closely, but if you ask the same 20 people ask what trump is convicted of, we get a blank stare. i don't think people -- larry: when the judge gave three options, check offer an option that is most bizarre thing. i say that as an amateur, not a lawyer. in this case nori ache car, the other thing out on the coast in los angeles, the tax evasion

trial that lydia hu referred to coming up in september, mark scars sy is the judge. he is a hard-nosed trump fisted judge. he also is a trump appointee. i know los angeles is liberal area just like wilmington, delaware, i think when you have a good tough judge you get better results? >> i think that's right, larry. this trial today that ended was a home game of sorts of for biden in wilmington. it was the opposite what trump went through in manhattan which was very hostile environs for him but i really think juries take their cues from the judge as they should, and what decides most cases is evidence. so you know if you get a judge who plays games and puts his thumb on the scale for one side you will get one kind of result. if you get a judge who plays it straight, the case is probably going to have a just result regardless where it is tried. larry: andy, the appeal, abby lowell might appete, what are

the odds of that? >> low. you know the second amendment, larry, is a very dynamic issue in the federal courts right now. we're expecting a related case, i mean related in the sense that it's the same statute although a different section of it that hunter was convicted on. we're expecting a case from the supreme court in the next couple weeks. that's what they're banking on. it is not a defense that had any chance with the jury and i don't really give it much prospect on appeal either. larry: one last one, andy mc cart think, the tax evasion case on the west coast that may open up or at least discuss a lot of the allegations of influence peddling. i mean it is going to look at hunter's whole financial situation. what you think? >> i think they can't conceivably go to trial on that. on september 5th, with early voting just about beginning, a tax evasion case that is the one

that hunter tried to plead guilty because the evidence is so overwhelming and where the revenue you're talking about in the trial is based on his peddling of his father's political influence with agents of corrupt and anti-american regimes, i can't imagine that they would let that case go forward if they could avoid it, in the weeks right before the election. larry: wow, all right. andy mccarthy, thank you for the run-down. we appreciate it very, very much. >> thanks, larry. larry: let's continue this, bring in florida congressman byron donalds our good friend. byron, you have a quick thought on this hundred hunter biden business? >> my quick thought obviously the evidence was overwhelming. like andy and you both said the judge played it straight and the jury came back with the own only rational thing they could come back with. the issue is the biden family has been taken advantage of

joe biden's position for decades in our government. they made millions and millions of dollars overseas. this tax evasion case, by the way some of the more serious tax evasion crimes have actually expired because david weiss allowed them to expire, hunter biden will not have to answer that in california. that case is one that is incredibly damning, because it demonstrates the scope on which joe biden leveraged his office to enrich his family. and we believe he enriched himself as well. larry: it will be hard to shut all that down. byron, i want to switch topics talk about my pal bill mcgurns column today, lefties are beating up on you, there is no doubt, at least in my mind sir, that empirical evidence shows with clarity that the lbj great society and subsequent massive expansion of the welfare state which is continued through obama and joe biden has harmed the black family and the white

family. i mean he goes through this, thomas so well written about this. jason riley. other folks talked about, brad wilcox, charles murray. you said this in a philadelphia meeting. they all start beating up on you. how can anybody deny what you said was correct? >> well, larry, thank you for asking about that. it is interesting all of the people who have issues with what i said in philadelphia, they never talked about the substance. they talked about their feelings associated with one of the great tragedies in american history which is jim crow. i think also a lot of the critics, they don't want to acknowledge jim crow was a, was a era ushered in by democrat politicians in the south who still wanted to seg a gate and subjugate black people in this country. they also don't want to acknowledge it is lyndon johnson's great society, heavy

democrat policy, led to fathers not being in homes. federal agencies, state agencies would come and examine the apartments to make sure there wasn't a father figure in the home in order for welfare checks to go out. then of course you have the '94 crime bullish bullisherred in by joe biden. welfare policy under lyndon johnson it has been destructive of black families. my critics don't want to acknowledge that empirical reality. when you look at the policies that worked for the black community, frankly for all of america have been pro-growth, economic policies and education freedom policies which empower parent and give students and gives young black minorities, young people everywhere an opportunity to excel and achieve academic attainment to be economically viable in. larry: byron, a couple big

thoughts. jim crow was in the democratic party for 100 years, let's be serious about that. up until recently unfortunately. there was a democratic senate majority leader a former member of the kkk not so long ago. so people should quit harping on you for that. but the other point i want to make more generically, broadly with you, charles murray, i don't know if you ever read charles murray, smart guy, demographer. bell shape gived give, incidents and growth of welfare state did more harm to marriage and working folks to black and white families. he did have a racial filter, his overall point it affected ault working class families, all middle-class families and it affected them in a very negative way and democrats do not want to look in the mirror to face up to

the harm shall we say big government socialism is wreaking on the working folks of this country? >> no, charles murray is correct. it had major impacts with all populations especially people who were at the bottom of the economic ladder. if you were working poor, if you're struggling poor, if you need help. so i think that's the real lesson to learn from all of this is that what we have to find in america is the policy set that allows families to be united and be in homes. we're seeing that right now with the pro-growth policies of ronald reagan, of donald trump, where families are starting to become more united. you also need academic attainment for kids who are coming up who are at the bottom end of socioeconomic ladder. my mother gave me a ability to get my higher ed.cation standards so i could be viable building a job, et cetera. that is the policy regimen that will work. when you're talking about the welfare states, yes there are

people who need help. there was a time in my life, larry i needed help, my mother needed help, but it shouldn't be to the detriment and destruction of families. that is the thing that occurred. we have to rectify so everybody can do it going forward in america. larry: last one, byron, thank you for all these explanations, very important, very important. i will not let these lefties rule the day. president trump gives you a call. vice president byron donalds have a nice ring to it, would you accept? >> larry i've been dodging your question for months, i said early on if that is what the president wants to do, i'm on board, really about winning. he will make a decision. it will come pretty soon. i will support whatever decision he makes. listen this is a great country. we have overcome so much in america, we truly have. now we need true leadership in the white house. we need economic policies and other public policies to give americans all the different abilities to be successful. we've got to end these wars

overseas. we got to get away from these crazy policies of endless wars. donald trump kept this country safe. he needs to be the 47th president of the united states. larry: congressman byron donalds, the great state of florida. we appreciate it, sir as always, take care. >> thank you. larry: you bet. all right, folks be schur to catch the new "fox nation" special, antisemitism in america. that premiers this thursday. it is hosted by byron donalds okay? antisemitism in america, its an important point. coming up, listen to this, by a whopping 70 to 1%, 70% to 18%, voters are demanding drug tests for both mr. biden and mr. trump before the june 27th debate. pretty darn good idea if you ask me. we have joe concha. we have mark simone. they will talk about it. remember catch "kudlow" monday through friday 4:00 p.m. every

day right here on fox business. if for some reason you can't get us at 4:00, just text your favorite nine-year-old and she will show you how to dvr the show. you will never miss a thing. ♪. your best defense against erosion and cavities is strong enamel. nothing beats it. i recommend pronamel active shield because it actively shields the enamel to defend against erosion and cavities. i think that this product is a game changer for my patients. it really works.

larry: by a whopping 70-18%,

voters are demanding doctoring tests foreboth mr. biden and mr. trump before the june 27th debate. that is a tipp poll, and tipp polling happens to be the most regarded as accurate polling according to bloomberg studies. we have joe concha, mark simone, wor radio show host and hall-of-famer. i will start with you. why not test them because there will be questions what biden is taking so on. >> can i answer your question with a question, larry. larry: yes? >> what if i told you 10 years ago american people are demanding drug test for republican and democrat nominees for president. larry: how many years ago? >> 10 years. larry: wow. >> that is pretty crazy. the chances of this actually happening is 0.0 especially out of the biden camp because this is more directed at him obviously because we see

joe biden during the state of the union where he is so hopped up he is like a young ozzy osbourne, right? you see him yesterday at that juneteenth celebration, do you see when everybody is dancing around him, he froze, like when your phone, person wheels getting bad wi-fi, that was human version. larry: like a stand-up sphinx. on the other hand mark simone, he performed well at state. union. what was he on. >> vote for the pharmacist, whoever he is. no reason not to take the drug test, do it in sporting event, do it in boxing, absolutely no reason not to do it. if he has nothing to hide take the test. larry: will president trump agree to it? >> absolutely. larry: trump doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke. i think highly unlikely takes any drugs or any mood altering drugs. >> biden you could get a whole list a mile long, whatever he is

taking, milk of mag nesha red bull. larry: what was wrong with biden yesterday? that was a mean picture. very bad. he was standing there state up. >> you can manipulate a video show him three seconds frozen, like this the whole time you watch this for seconds upon seconds on end he doesn't move, particularly everyone so around him active, picture 84, 85, 86-year-old version of joe biden. this is something he wants for another four years. trump should absolutely hammer him. larry: you think the debates will be rigged against donald trump, why did he accept? >> has to take any opportunity. there are no commercials in presidential debate. this one will be first one to a lot of commercial breaks. the networks agreed to that. larry: never any commercials?

>> 90 minutes straight. >> they're putting in the breaks like fighter getting too hard, got a chance to go in the corner. trainer can revive him. during breaks can talk to the people. they will rig the questions. it will be, do you still deny the election results? will be january 6th. all issues people don't care about. >> a lot of climate change. a lot on abortion, no question about that. but the top five issues right now are inflation. it's the border, particularly illegal immigration. it is trust in government. it's poverty and homelessness and it is foreign policy. if you're jake tapper ordain that bash, those should be the first five questions. it should be heavily focused on that. that aim going to happen. larry: everyone beats up on my friend jake tapper. i have known him a long time. i used to do a sunday show constantly in ghost. he is not that bad. dana bash, that one i don't know much about. january 6th, nancy pelosi, her daughter did a film about j-6. pelosi is quoted on the film

saying she should have called in the troops. why didn't they call in the troops. they were confused. too late. later on issued a clarification or whatever we're going to call it. she didn't really mean what she said. in fact, in fact, trump wanted 10 to 20,000 troops and in fact the speaker of the house, who presides over the sergeant of arms, who runs the cops, had the authority to okay the national guard. what do you make of this story? now, is this pelosi's movie by way of excusing her behavior or changing the story or what? >> it's all fake news in those fake hearings. he told miller, the acting defense secretary three times, suggested 10,000 troops. larry: yes, that's right. >> miller testified he never ordered me -- that is technicality. that is lawyerly technicality. made sure in the hearings, to not to say did he suggest it to you three times. the fact he did not order it. larry: you read the pelosi story. i read it through

"the daily caller." ran on "breitbart," part of it, it just seems like ms. pelosi basically saying we should have done that, but we didn't do it. later on not exactly what we meant. it was taken out of context. i just think it is an interesting angle, to this day i don't think most americans understand what happened january 6th or what all the debate was about. they just know there was an unfortunate melee and some people got into the capitol. i don't think they understand it. >> the bigger question what could prevent this from happening. a large national guard troop presence like donald trump wanted, most likely that thing, no one gets anywhere near the capitol. you don't see all the i am imag. the bottom line, january 6th committee could have put the tape forward, liz cheney, never done that. whether we're talking about russia collusion, steele dossier, trump choking his own secret service agents, bounty, this is yet another narrative fell by the wayside after the

fact. larry: more fake news. mark simone, supremes will weigh in on immunity. j-6, may not be a j-6 trial. by the by in south florida, the documents will not be a documents trial this year. and by the bay, your friend fani willis down in georgia is heap of trouble. not being a trial down there. >> no georgia, no documents case. that is all gone. i'm worried about this judge. they know this is their only shot. this judge could put him in jail. >> how long is the question. four months put him past the election. larry: he is a rogue. compared to noreika trump appointee, gave straight down middle instructions to the jury in hunter biden trial. marchon was rogue judge, sham trial. joe concha, mark simone, thank you very much. >> thanks, larry. larry: folks, moving right along here, i love this story, no more taxes on tips. almost as good as no tax period.

sheer genius from president trump. we'll talk about it with steve moore, house budget committee chair, jodey arrington. next up, i'm kudlow. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ jardiance! ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪

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♪. larry: all right, no mower taxes on tips. how about that for a blue-collar tax cut. donald trump's proposal on tax-free tips is sheer genius. he lasted it out in his rally on las vegas on sunday. please take a listen. >> this is the first time i said this for those hotel workers and people that get tips you will be very happy, because when i get to office, we are going to not charge taxes on tips, peep making tips. [cheering] we're not going to do it and we're going to do that right away, first thing in office because, it's been a point of

contention for years and years and years and, you do a great job of service, you take care ever people and i think it is going to be something that is really deserved. larry: i'm telling you folks, sheer genius. this is similar to a payroll tax cut. it reduces employment taxes but without all the complications of the big entitlement programs. unfortunately tips are now taxable income. they're part of wages, tips, other compensation in the w2 irs form. in the democratic congress a couple years ago, in their war against workers, passed an 80 billion-dollar irs tax bill that theoretically would sponsor 87,000 new agents. guess what? so far they have hired 34. pathetic. but the biden democrats tried to convince us they were really chasing after millionaires. don't buy it, folks. millionaires have layers of high-priced tax lawyers to protect them but waitresses,

service oriented workers, people in the gig economy, they're the ones the irs is really aiming at and tax-free tipping will help them a lot. think of your uber-drivers, 20% tip or favorite waitress at local diner or kindly chambermaids that clean up your hotel room, they will all get more money. that is a big part of las vegas, isn't it? where roughly a quarter of the workers are in the leisure and hospitality industries and las vegas is a big part of nevada and nevada is an important swing state. that's a big part of a trump presidential victory. now joe biden's been happy to tax tips plus biden's been trying to get federal contractors to raise the minimum wage, which would price out the marginal worker all together. by the way, according to the "wall street journal" report, the head of the culinary union in las vegas likes the idea but then he started trashing trump. kind of like the uaw, you know the left-wing union officials

hate trump but the rank-and-file is going to vote for trump, you wait and see. by the by the benefit of tax-free tipping is a lot like the exemption for employers sponsored health insurance. it is a tax-exempt benefit used by millions and millions of business. president trump is up by five points in the "realclearpolitics" average poll for nevada, but his idea for tax-free tips will raise the take-home pay for tens of millions of workers across the country. like i said, sheer genius. and that is my riff. let's welcome steve moore, committee to unleash prosperity and wabc radio host of "moore money" and budget chair jodey arrington from the great state of texas. gentlemen, good day to you, mr. budget chairman, i think it's a brilliant idea, a very brilliant idea. what you think, sir? >> i agree with you word for

word in your riff. i think what the american people, especially working families suffering with this disasterous and regressive tax of record inflation need is not a stimulus check and a new government entitlement. they need to keep more of their hard-earned money. so i think the president's right on. this is what he is the best at. number one, he is not disconnected like biden from working people. he understands the pain that this administration's fiscal policies have created on them and he also understands that when you lower taxes as he did in his first term, you see wages go up, you see a better quality of life, you see all boats rise on the tide of prosperity. we experienced under the pro-growth, economic agenda of president trump. so i think this is a very good beginning to what i believe and hope will be a second term for this president. larry: steve moore, you're always telling me, reminding me,

ronald reagan's take-home pay. you will have millions of service workers with increased take-home pay because their tips won't be taxed? >> yeah. you know, you may not know this, larry but my first job was as a valet where he parked cars at partys and wedding receptions and most of the income you get when you do that is from people who tip and the better job you did, the more the tips you got. by the way the left, this is another part of this story, liberals don't like tips. they have been trying to get rid of the tip economy, everybody gets paid the same. because if you perform better than i do you shouldn't get more money. i love the tip economy. i think it should be expanded. i will say another thing. this is a blue-collar president who wants to give a blue-collar tax cut to working class americans. i got to tell you, larry, i talked to a number of my democratic friends. you know what they said? why didn't we think of this. i think trump really beat biden

on the middle class. i think you're right, so many states like need, -- nevada, good politically and it is good economics. it is a pay raise for people that work. larry: more after-tax income. it reduces the tax burden on employment. it provides an incentive to work. it is a fabulous idea. budget chair jodey arrington, i just want to ask you, joe biden is going to leave a potential president trump with roughly a two trillion dollar budget deficit as far as the eye can see, okay? john maynard keynes would turn over in his grave. you have high inflation, low unemployment and you're still running massive budget deficits. it violates every rule of economics known to mankind, left, right, center. however, mr. chairman, it will be essential to extend the trump tax cuts on top of this deficit. i know this is not the last word. i just wanted to feel you out. are you thinking ahead?

are you looking at reconciliation possibilities if you get a trump presidency, and a republican sweep? >> absolutely. it will be the biggest tool in the tool box to save this country from fiscal collapse. we're on an unsustainable path. you mentioned two trillion in annual deficits. that will double over 10 years and we're going to pay just this year, almost a trillion dollar to service the debt which is more than we're spending on medicare and defense. so the foundation has to be growth. we are spending and borrowing more, faster than we're growing at a faster rate. so we've got to start with returning to pro-growth policies. i think the tax cut and tax reform is the centerpiece there. like we saw record revenue, record, not just revenue of the covers but revenue back to folks in terms of wages and income and, but it's deregulation. it's all the above. it's america first trade, but

you've got to bend the spending curve and you've got to focus on the mandatory spending that is driving the debt. you cannot avoid that. so it is the texas two-step, cut spending grow the economy. president trump knows how to do that better than anybody in recent history. larry: steve moore, i just have 30 seconds. why does the joint tax committee keep reestimating the trump tax cuts to be more and more -- 1.5 trillion a few years ago. now they have it all the way up to four 1/2 trillion. i think that is garbage in, garbage out. 30 seconds, steve moore. >> yeah the more they're wrong the more they double down. larry: right. >> should be revising their estimates the other way, whoops we made a mistake. you and i and every american knows that this tax cut that the chairman was just talking about has actually paid for itself with better investment, better employment, better growth. larry: you know i think, i think fox business hosts should be paid only in tips, that's what i

think. >> exactly. larry: a fabulous new idea. >> i love it. larry: steve moore, thank you very much. house budget chair, jodey arrington you're very kind sir, thank you very much. folks turning to a different story, liberal media blames israel first. even with the incredibly brave hostage rescue. let's bring in our great friend alabama senator tommy tuberville. senator tuberville. here is some sound. we ran a little bit what the liberal media said about israel. take a listen. >> but the rescue left a devastating toll for palestinians with more than 270 killed in the mission according to the hamas-run gaza health ministry. >> the israeli insistent release of hostages through purely military means has in fact killed far more israeli hostages than they rescued. the israeli government's goal of destroying gaza ranks more than

the lives of their hostages. that is why we're stuck in this grow tisk scenario. >> this may hurt effort to to have a cease-fire and release the remaining hostages. larry: efforts, gaza health care ministry here. what am i missing? like the world was turned upside down. brilliant move by israeli forces, rescued a bunch of hostages that we said in the first place. what happens, all the left-wing liberals, clowns, media, bra, blah, all they can do is attack israel. i don't get it, senator? >> they speak out of both sides of their mouth, larry. if you go back to the vietnam war, there was hundreds of thousands of civilians killed by both the vietnamese and united states. same thing we went into iraq. same thing is going to happen. same thing if we allow zelenskyy to shoot long-range missiles into russia. this is war. unfortunately people do get

killed but there were hostages. thank god we got four more out. hopefully we get some more. we have american hostages still left. you never hear anything joe biden and this administration talking about american hostages in israel. they all want to bash everything israel does. but they turn around and support everything ukraine is doing, pushing them in the limit where they're getting more people killed. larry: that is a very interesting point, that is a very interesting contrast. another subject, senator, the bidens, they don't want you to have a gas-powered stove. you know that you cook over an open fire anyway. they want to electrify all the buildings in washington, d.c., as part of their top-down, central command-and-control bringing government socialist climate policy. they want to electrify every building which is a terrible idea in terms of efficiency and it will cost a fortune. what do you make of that, senator? >> larry, you think we've got inflation problems? you start doing that in all big

cities, even all the cities across the country, electrifying everything, first of all we don't have the power grid to do that. but it would cause a absolute fortune. we need to get back to oil and natural gas. this inflation reduction act pushed a few years ago, this was nothing climate. this was a climate tax they put own the american people. all they want to do is more and more taxes. this climate hoax they're pushing every day will cost this country its livelihood. it will put more and more people out of work. it will put who are and more people in the food line. unfortunately the biden administration doesn't care anything about that. we have got to get donald trump elected before this turns into a complete disaster. larry: last one, senator tuberville, you're so good, 30 seconds. i'm reading that the senate republican conference wants to term limit its next leader or majority leader. term limits what do you make of it, sir? >> well term limits for the majority leader in other words, senator mcconnell and schumer

have been up there for pretty much forever. i think everybody else has term limit up here in terms of leadership. i think that leadership should be term-limited where we can get something done. where people don't have to look behind their backs to see who is coming to vote them out. i think that is very important. term limits for everybody up here. i'm for term limits. i'm for coming up here especially for the senate going 12 years. if 12 years not enough to get the job done you're in the wrong position. i think we need some kind -- american people need some kind of control over washington, d.c., larry. right now the american taxpayer, the citizen, the average person that is out there fighting inflation has no control what goes on in this country in this city. larry: yes, sir, that's all i can say, senator tuberville. yes, sir. i will give you a quick salute. thank you very much as always, appreciate it. >> thank you. larry: you bet. folks energy expert steve koonin he says the climate crisis is

fading out. hallelujah. he joins us next up on "kudlow". in any business, you ride the line between numbers and people. what's right for the business and what's best for everyone who depends on it. solving today's challenges while creating future opportunities. it takes balance. cla - cpas, consultants, and wealth advisors. we'll get you there. [thunder rumbles] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ the biggest ideas inspire new ones. 30 years ago, state street created an etf that inspired the world to invest differently. it still does. what can you do with spy? ♪ ♪

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larry: energy expert steve koonin write notice "wall street journal" a fabulous piece, climate crisis fades out. he joins me on set.

author of unsettled with a new updated expanded edition out today, one click on whatever click you like to click. steve koonin, welcome back, despite $12 trillion of spending and the world, fossil fuels still 80% of total world energy, something very bad has gone wrong here. >> we're spending a lot of money and not having much impact. we're causing a lot of disruption as we try to displace fossil fuels and it's just working. emissions are at an all-time high. global consumption of oil, coal and gas are almost at record levels. the world needs energy. renewables are just not the way to get it. larry: i was going to ask, if 830% of world's power comes from fossil fuels is that bad? 80%. is that bad? >> if you believe that co2 into the atmosphere will break the climate, then you should be

worried about that. larry: i asked that empirically, not religiously. i'm a impiercist i don't regard climate as religion. with facts you are a fact driven guy, is that a bad thing, 80%? >> in terms of overall human welfare it is a wonderful thing because fossil fuels are the least expensive and most reliable way for people to get the energy they need and the world needs a lot more energy in order for most people to develop. larry: what don't we know after this whole, long period of climate hysteria, what don't we know, what do we know in your judgment? you spend a lot of time with that. i read the first edition of unsettled. what don't we know? >> what we don't know is the overall state of the oceans. very difficult to observe and it is where climate happens. we have only 10 years worth of good climate data. we don't really understand the role of clouds. this is the biggest uncertainty

when there are more clouds, the earth reflects more sunlight, less clouds it absorbs more. we don't really understand what causing the changes in clouds. larry: it, radical changes then in direction, if we don't know this stuff we have shouldn't really try to drive the ship. maybe driving the ship off a cliff or something. i have was interested, you mentioned in your op-ed piece, you see a revolt against climate now. the european election is a perfect example but you also see it here, and polling revolt against forced electric vehicles that people don't want. >> there is a natural pace on which we can change the energy systems. if you try to do it too rapidly people rebel. home heating systems, for example, in germany and the uk, and holland have had electoral consequences. you require people to spend 10, $15,000 to upgrade or to change their home heating system when they really don't need to. larry: you know, i've asked you this in the past, but it is

like, what's wong with a quote all of the above strategy? not to end fossils which is ridiculous and patently so as you point out, but you know, why not let market investment, why not the technology lead us, why not scientific discovery lead us, what's wrong with that? >> i think there is nothing wrong with it but there are people who believe we shouldn't be emitting co2 and therefore they want to push the system in one particular direction. i think on a time scale of 100 years, maybe that's not a terrible thing to be doing but it is too much, too fast, expensive, disruptive, and will ultimately fail. larry: i think we learned that. i think the political consequences and financial consequences are quite substantial. that is what you're suggesting. >> also geopolitical consequences. if we make energy more expensive here, where it is china or india don't do that. >> we will lose manufacturing. larry: yes, sir. anyway. larry: staff keen anyone you have steve koonin, get the book.

more on the radio this weekend,e professottr koonin. i'm back witbeh myne last l ch without over or under investing. word. well invested, well protected. there are many ways to do things. at old dominion freight line, we do them this way. this way has people who start early. people who care and inspire each other to do things the way they should be done. this way uses technology (♪) and goes the extra mile (♪) to deliver your promises on-time, every time. this way is why we're the number one national ltl carrier for quality. for us, this way is the right way which is why it's the only way we go.

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larry: i tell ya, folks, tax-free tips is a hot idea by president trump. if you know what? it's for working folks, and it's part of his working class coalition that may upset all these establishment apple carts. and liz liz mac and i are going to get paid in tax-free tips for all fox business hosts.

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